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Author Topic: SoulCalibur 6  (Read 12313 times)
Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2019, 19:23 »

There's no skeleton asset here, UModel will not work correctly without it.

Also a question: why skinning already skinned mesh?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 19:25 by Gildor » Logged
Tetraspore
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #61 on: July 04, 2019, 02:44 »

I'm not trying to reskin it, I'm trying to use it as a test. If I can rip a model, open it in 3ds max, export it, import to ue4, and get it in game exactly the same, then I have an appropriate workflow in order. If I cannot successfully do this, I do not want to move forward with modding, as there are problems somewhere in that pipeline, and I believe that problem does come from the initial extraction of the model and skeleton.

EDIT:

Try this: https://www.mediafire.com/file/4kevwuxd8n162x2/r_all_016_Skeleton.uasset/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/d6ct3cnf9g4jj1g/r_all_016_Skeleton.uexp/file
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 03:26 by Tetraspore » Logged
Tetraspore
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2019, 07:22 »

Hey, would like to report another issue: Hand bones don't extract correctly. Here is an image provided by another user in the SCVI modding community:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/537041381718229024/596541079830921216/Screenshot_42.png?width=363&height=301

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/537041381718229024/596545357274677248/Screenshot_47.png

It might be worthwhile to take a look again at how bones and skeletons are extracted in Umodel, we cannot get 100% perfect mods at this point due to bone problems stemming from extracted meshes using umodel.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 07:38 by Tetraspore » Logged
Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2019, 10:29 »

Bones are extracted "as is", as they exist in Unreal. If you want to prove a bug, you should show how bones looks in UModel, then - how they looks in Max, after ActorX import, i.e. COMPARE pictures. If you see some strange bone, this don't have to be a bug - this might be some "helper" made by designer, or a bone which is intended to ANOTHER model (which uses the same skeleton).
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Spectator Sly
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #64 on: July 05, 2019, 21:02 »

Hello and Good Afternoon,

I would like to also concur with there being known issues with the hands' bones, which is visible in both Umodel and 3ds Max.

Here are three examples of hand equipment that exhibit the misaligned bones within Umodel:
https://i.imgur.com/1OOHsYv.png
https://i.imgur.com/R6SGDJw.png
https://i.imgur.com/0lMafDq.png

And then here are the same three examples when imported @ the bone size/mesh scale of 0.103 with the ActorXImporter in 3ds Max (which are the current settings that fit on the models in-game, when combined with an uniform scale of 10.0 in UE4):
https://i.imgur.com/5gyOQjs.png
https://i.imgur.com/655kKNi.png
https://i.imgur.com/QCREpRf.png

Every hand will end up looking something like this in-game, when re-imported:
https://i.imgur.com/d05UYZV.png

Here's a compare and contrast of one of the hand meshes that shows how the bones should be aligned:
Broken:
https://i.imgur.com/4xd4fcO.png
Fixed:
https://i.imgur.com/ZnvVwlY.png
Broken #2:
https://i.imgur.com/kMP1pel.png
Fixed #2:
https://i.imgur.com/1fop8dy.png

I have tried each translation mode to no avail, resulting only in the same issues. As far as I know, there's no way to try out the .mot files yet for animation testing (at least in 3ds Max), so each mesh has no animations loaded up by default. Aside from the hands (and a few other physics issues I'm still trying to pinpoint and test), the skeleton's otherwise working fine for rest of the body.

I've spend the better part of the last three evenings troubleshooting various settings, and now I'm just stumped with what could be causing this. Part of me does think it could be how Project Soul did their rigging.

I'll keep testing to see if I find anything different with other pieces of equipment.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 21:08 by Spectator Sly » Logged
Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #65 on: July 05, 2019, 21:15 »

I saw similar issue with bone scale, it has been fixed in UModel at 21.10.2018. Is it possible that you're using OLDER umodel? I should ask that, because it happens quite often - people are using really OLD umodel, and reporting bugs which does not exist in current version.
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Spectator Sly
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2019, 22:20 »

These were tested and verified using the most recent version of Umodel (22 June, 2019). I generally check the downloads page weekly to see if anything's updated.

I'll ask some others to see if they're using a recent version.
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Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2019, 22:27 »

I'll need a sample then, I'll see if there's some core UE4 feature which I'm missed. Hopefully this is not "animation retargetting" because I'm not going to support it soon. The sample from the 2nd post is useless because it has incomplete data.
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Spectator Sly
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2019, 22:58 »

Okay, here are the three pieces I used for examples: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qrmj7ma21zona7q/ArmpieceSamples.zip?dl=0

It should include the saved UE4 packages and the exported materials/textures/PSK meshes in the 'Creation' folders.

Let me know if there's something I've missed and/or if you need anything else.
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Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2019, 00:00 »

I'm checking these hand meshes. It is very hard to say if they has really bad skeleton or not, it entirely depends on animation - which is not usable (as it is custom for this game). I don't see any special data which might affect bone positions. Scales are supported, positions are correct (there's no way to make a mistake there). It is possible that the game retargets animation to a different skeleton. Or animation may be adjusted for distorted skeleton.

Regarding mesh scale. Scale is fully supported: https://trello.com/c/GqgldLy2/126-mesh-translation-rotation-scale
However, NON-UNIFORM scale shouldn't work. If this game uses different scale values over different axes, this simply won't work. It is possible that the bone has scale just for (say) X axis.

However, I've reviewed meshes in debug build of UModel, there's no scales on those meshes, which could be unsupported. So, UModel displays and exports data "as is", exactly what the game has. So I think that probably meshes has bugs themselves (even AAA game artists are not ideal developers, everyone makes mistakes). As I said before, there are many ways of fixing issues in UnrealEd itself, plus they have custom animation system which might have different solution.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 00:12 by Gildor » Logged
Spectator Sly
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2019, 01:07 »

Hmm, I see... Well, thanks for your insight and analysis on this. For the time being, I'll translate the hand bones on the x-axis back into place and see what that does.

I've talked with a few guys in the SCVI modding scene about it, and they all seem to not bother with any armpiece mods because of this, so I've just found it a bit annoying and wasn't sure what could be the root cause.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 01:10 by Spectator Sly » Logged
Tetraspore
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2019, 08:40 »

So, the scale is uniform within each bone, however the scale is not uniform across all bones. If you look here you can see some notes about the actual scales of each bone. When these meshes are imported into 3DS Max, they are stated to have a scale of "1.0", which is inaccurate. It's why we have to scale things down by 10, or import at various scales depending on which parts of the skeleton the armor is rigged to, in order to have appropriate scale in game. This creates problems with regard to physics as well as scaling, and we are left to sacrifice one over the other.
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jones45
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2019, 01:13 »

So, the scale is uniform within each bone, however the scale is not uniform across all bones. If you look here you can see some notes about the actual scales of each bone. When these meshes are imported into 3DS Max, they are stated to have a scale of "1.0", which is inaccurate. It's why we have to scale things down by 10, or import at various scales depending on which parts of the skeleton the armor is rigged to, in order to have appropriate scale in game. This creates problems with regard to physics as well as scaling, and we are left to sacrifice one over the other.

I looked at a debug version of umodel. I think there is some error in UnAnim4.ccp where it "Adjust other bones" using "CVT(Transform.Translation).Scale(Scale);" It should set all these bones using the actual scales if you want it to fit the mesh but it doesn't. This is why it looks like it fits but the hands and other stuff are off. If I disable this scale adjustment function I can just manually input all the actual scale data like you linked to and it fits perfectly into the mesh. If this function is fixed it would output a skeleton and mesh that is perfectly skinned with all scales at 1.0.

I haven't tried modding this game but would that mean that the tiny unscaled unajusted skeleton is the correct model that should go back into the game and it you want to adjust it externally you need these debug values?
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Tetraspore
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2019, 06:49 »

I believe what you are saying is correct, yes. Can you point me in the direction of utilizing umodel in the way you are so that I can access the debug mode and input the correct scale values myself to see? The model should be tiny. It would match up with the rest of the lazy practices that project soul has used-- it's literally just the SCV skeleton with some scaling on it.
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Gildor
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Re: SoulCalibur 6
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2019, 11:22 »

Some information about "debug mode" is available in readme.md. In general, building UModel from VS Code always does debug build.
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